Realty Life
Veteran realtor and industry leader Ken McLachlan talks with real people about their passions, their accomplishments and the moments that changed their lives. Realty Life is an inspirational and powerful look at how life turns and the journeys that follow.
Realty Life
From Olympic GOLD to Real Estate ROCKSTAR | Chris Cook
What does it take to go from Olympic athlete to top-tier real estate leader?
Ken McLachlan sits down with Chris Cook, a former Olympic sailor turned successful real estate professional, to explore the winding path of discipline, self-discovery, and personal growth.
From his humble beginnings in subsidized sailing lessons to the world stage at the Olympics, Chris shares how life’s hardest lessons shaped his mindset and leadership style.
With candor and clarity, he reflects on building a real estate career, raising grounded kids in a tech-obsessed world, and why nothing great is ever done alone.
Listen For
04:14 – Representing Canada in the Olympics
11:17 – The Hardest Part: Keeping the Right People Around
17:27 – A Desire to Coach and Share Knowledge
29:28 – Real Estate Requires Early Sacrifice and Intention
Guest: Chris Cook | Sales Representative | RE/MAX Hallmark - The Halyard Group
Website | Email | 416-435-8324
Ken can be reached at:
Ken McLachlan (00:05):
So this is a big deal for me. I'm sitting here across looking at my friend Chris Cook, and I've learned so much about him and you, Chris, I'm going to talk to you both in the singular as if you're here because you are the discipline that you've had in your life, the journey that you have in your life is quite extraordinary and the different things you're willing to take on and the challenges you've had doing it. So welcome to my podcast, Realty Life. I'm so glad you're here and I'm so glad that I'm able to talk with you to share your story. So how do you feel?
Chris Cook (00:41):
I feel privileged. I love, one of the things is obviously it's a very big organization that you guys run here, and right from the early times, I've always felt like it was much smaller and it's thanks to yourself and Steve and Debra that it feels like a much smaller organization than it
Ken McLachlan (01:10):
Really. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. I think it's more intimate in a sense that we do that, but it's hanging out with people like you that matter. So I first really met you golfing. I mean, I met you before, but it really got to yak with you and talk with you and get to know you a bit more. When I watched you golf at, I think it was Flemington or some crazy place in Toronto, and I just looked at you and think, how the hell can you hit the ball so far, number one, and how calm you were and how into the moment and not stressed about anything. And it was really enlightening to me to watch you and I knew a bit about your background and tell us a bit about how you got to be Chris Cook. I mean, you're from Toronto, right?
Chris Cook (02:01):
Yeah, I'm from Durham actually, where I'm sitting right now, coincidentally.
Ken McLachlan (02:05):
And that's just outside of Toronto, east of Toronto,
Chris Cook (02:08):
Yeah.
Ken McLachlan (02:08):
And how long have you been, you're in the real estate business, you in the leadership group, you have your own businesses as well. How long have you been in real estate?
Chris Cook (02:20):
I was licensed sort of mid 2015, and then I wouldn't say I was a real estate agent until really 2016. It took me a while to find my footing, find a few clients to help.
Ken McLachlan (02:35):
What was it like starting out? Do you remember?
Chris Cook (02:38):
Yeah, I do. It was really scary. It was really scary
Ken McLachlan (02:41):
In the sense that what way?
Chris Cook (02:44):
Yeah, I actually wanted to get my real estate license in 2018, or sorry, 2008. I remember I was coming home from the Olympics and I didn't know really what was next. I had no idea. And so actually I signed up for the real estate courses and I think I did the first course. I started the first course and I got offered a job coaching sailing, and I always kind of look at that as I never really regret anything. I'm glad that I ended up doing it, but it's kind of that point in my life where I'm glad that I did the coaching thing. It really did develop me and help me be the person I am now. But it also, at the same time, I really feel like I missed some really great runway as well in a career that I've come to love. So it's hard to say if I could back it up, which one I would do, but you can't do that obviously. And the four years that I spent coaching has really formed the real
Ken McLachlan (04:03):
Estate. Yeah, I want to get into that a bit because for background you are an Olympic athlete. You represented Canada in the Olympics what year?
Chris Cook (04:14):
2008
Ken McLachlan (04:16):
And in the sport of
Chris Cook (04:20):
Sailing.
Ken McLachlan (04:20):
Sailing, I was going to call it yachting, but I thought that's
Chris Cook (04:24):
Call it. Yeah, they called it yachting
Ken McLachlan (04:25):
Yet, but it's sailing. So I mean that is a tremendous achievement to be an Olympic athlete representing our country and going to the Olympics and the dedication, the training, the commitment to excellence to get there, to be world-class. I mean, you just don't wake up one day and say, Hey, I'm going to be an Olympic athlete. Tell us a bit about that journey. How did it happen? What did you learn about yourself during it?
Chris Cook (04:51):
That's a deep pool. There's a lot, so many things. There were a lot of things that happened along the way and it really was a moment. I remember when I decided that I did want to actually go to the Olympics. I was maybe 16.
Ken McLachlan (05:08):
So you actually had that thought, right?
Chris Cook (05:10):
Yeah, I
Ken McLachlan (05:11):
Know anybody, Chris, sorry. I don't know anybody else in my life that actually maybe I'm not hanging out with the right people, but that have that thought. I going to be at 16, that I'm going to be an Olympic athlete.
Chris Cook (05:23):
Yeah, maybe it was a little bit before that. I was probably 14. 14 and I got put in sailing. Interestingly, my mom put me in sailing. She was a single mom,
(05:37):
Put me in sailing because it was subsidized by the yacht club and it was actually cheaper than daycare. It was cheaper than summer. You have a very smart mom like that. So I don't come from a background of other, it's not a sailing family or anything. It was just this quite convenient thing for me to go to. And I remember loved it because I got to go out and drive a boat around. I was eight years old when I was first introduced to it, and you got to drive the boat and you got to control
Ken McLachlan (06:09):
It. It's a big deal.
Chris Cook (06:10):
It was very, as a young, most eight year olds don't get to just do that. So I remember really loving that freedom aspect of it and being able to do what I want and call the shots and all that sort of thing. But I really liked it and I continued with it and I was pretty good at it. And I remember my mom sent me to Geneva Park up in Lake Coch for this.
Ken McLachlan (06:42):
Yeah, I've been there
Chris Cook (06:43):
This camp and the
Ken McLachlan (06:47):
YMCA thing.
Chris Cook (06:48):
Yeah, I was 14 and there were all these adults that were there at this camp. It was really kind of weird. I wasn't really surrounded with a lot of other kids. And one of the adults she was, I mean I say an adult, she was probably 2021 or something much older than me at the time, and she said,
Ken McLachlan (07:07):
Is this going to go down a different path? No.
Chris Cook (07:10):
Yeah. Well, anyway, she goes, you could go to the Olympics
Ken McLachlan (07:14):
Really?
Chris Cook (07:15):
And you're really good. You could go to the Olympics one day. I remember thinking, yeah, that seems like a pretty good thing to do. I'll do that. And so I kept goofing around. I think the interesting thing is I was good enough to be around and to compete at the provincial level and a little bit at the national level, but I wasn't taking it seriously enough. I actually, I think it's funny that you think how disciplined I am, and I actually was the opposite. I had all kinds of problems. I was known as the party guy and I'd go to regattas and I didn't take it very seriously. It wasn't something I had this idea of I'll go to the Olympics one day, but I didn't have any of the commitment. I didn't have any of the tools to do it. And then you start meeting people as you go, that hold me back and really took a guiding role. There were a handful of people that really took an interest in me and helped shape who I am. They forced a lot of these characteristics that you talk about onto me. They expected more.
(08:36):
They saw the potential and really did pull it out of me. It wasn't something that I was born with,
Ken McLachlan (08:42):
But you had to have that sense that you wanted to do it, and it was worth doing really at that early young age, really to actually dig in there and dig down for it. Right?
Chris Cook (08:53):
Yeah. And was I think for what it's, I don't really believe in that much in natural ability. Some people have a predisposition for things and I really did the competition part and I lacked the discipline to be the best. And interestingly, I lacked that discipline until I was 30. Really, I was very late in life and my coach that I was working with at the time, I remember we went on this hike after I lost the Olympic trials in 2004, and I was exactly 30. And he was like, is your goal to go to the Olympics or do you actually want to achieve something along the way? That was sort of another moment where I was like, no, I want to be the best at this. And so he put a lot of things around me, demanded a lot. He was actually pretty demanding. He was a very demanding person and he put a bunch of people around me, including sports psychologists and nutritionists and all the people that it took to take me from where I was, which was, I was sitting around sort of 35th in the world and we put this plan together and in eight months, it was 10 months, I went from not qualifying for the Olympics, finishing. I think I finished 40th at that world championship and 10 months later I came third. And that
Ken McLachlan (10:36):
Was from
Chris Cook (10:37):
The, yeah, I also had shoulder surgery during that time, destroyed my shoulders. That was where I sort of thought, it's amazing what you can do in a really short period of time with the right people around you.
Ken McLachlan (10:52):
Well, the discipline of getting those people in your life really and having, recognizing that what they're saying to you matters and the inspiration they have for you. And then you did the work. I mean, it must have been a lot of work to get there. Obviously
Chris Cook (11:08):
The hardest work, to be honest with you, now that we're talking about it and it sort of comes out and you think about it, the hardest thing was keeping those people in your life.
Ken McLachlan (11:17):
What do you mean?
Chris Cook (11:18):
Oh, it's easy. I could have fired them. I could have been, I don't like the way you're talking to me. You can blame other people even if they are trying to help you. And there were a lot of people that were really demanding, and I could have,
Ken McLachlan (11:40):
Yeah, you could have just ran away from the whole thing and you recognized that your way perhaps wasn't the only way of doing it. The other people were looking out for your best interests to help you
Chris Cook (11:50):
Grow. Actually as it turns out, my way of doing it was wrong. That's it turns out
Ken McLachlan (11:55):
I think we all have that in our life. We learn from other people and the saying is, who you surround yourself with is who you really are in life. You're closest five people that are in your life are really judge who you are from those people really. And you learned that at the age of 30 to surround yourself with really quality people. Did you know it then, or is it something in hindsight?
Chris Cook (12:20):
Well, no. You start to recognize it and you start to see it. It wasn't a very long journey. From the time where I actually committed to it,
Ken McLachlan (12:33):
35 to four
Chris Cook (12:34):
To getting there, it, you start to recognize certain things and having quality people in your life is inspiring, but it's difficult. It's really, it challenges you and it makes you be better. It was a really interesting time. It's really
Ken McLachlan (12:56):
Cool. Yeah, I mean that statement you made just now about having challenging people in your life is difficult. And people that challenge you, having people in your life that challenge you is difficult and you have to make that choice to either listen to 'em or not listen to them and to work from there. And that is a big learning, I think, and it's actually really good. I think that's neat. That's kind of cool.
Chris Cook (13:21):
Yeah, and the interesting thing that Colin, my sports psychologist said is at the beginning of our relationship, it was all one sided. It was all him giving to me. But then it reaches a point where we start actually helping each other and it becomes a symbiotic relationship. He's getting better because of me and vice versa, and we all get to a better place.
Ken McLachlan (13:44):
And that has to be, every healthy relationship has to have that, doesn't it? If you don't have that, the people in your life that you're not contributing to each other. What's the point really? Marriages with friends, business, all that stuff. It's a two way street. I always ask people, Chris, I believe this to be true, and I think you kind of intimated it here with me at the age of 13 and 14 are really defining ages for us that really there's something happens to us. So there's an instant that we can all relate back to that really kind of sets the tone and of our life that going forward, something happened for me, it was being with my father, watching him. I've told the story before, watching him look at a house real estate and me realizing that, you know what? That's something that I really like to get into. I mean, that makes sense to me. And then having that moment of clarity for me. Did you have clarity at that age, not about real estate, but just about being your life?
Chris Cook (14:53):
Well, yeah. I mean obviously making that commitment at that age to go after something. I think it was ignorance is bliss. It seems like a really great idea. And if you saw all of the things you had to do, maybe you would've chosen a different road.
Ken McLachlan (15:15):
Yeah, I know.
Chris Cook (15:16):
But I think you're probably right. I think it's interesting that you say that 13, 14, 15 in around there. I feel like that age 30 was another big turning point for me. And it was something that actually my mom had pointed out and she was like, don't get married before you're 30 because everything's going to change. And then I get excited about the next decade because it's actually you that said, how much change is how much you get done from 50 to 60?
Ken McLachlan (15:50):
How old are you now?
Chris Cook (15:51):
Just turned 50. Here you go. Turning 51 this year. And I can see things click and you start to understand where your time is best spent and how to be a lot more careful.
Ken McLachlan (16:10):
Do you know the end of the story for you when you're, pick a number 70, 80, 90, what's the Chris? What is it?
Chris Cook (16:18):
No idea. No
Ken McLachlan (16:20):
Idea. Do you have any vision of that or do you have any? It's not a vision board for me. It's kind of hokey, but I understand it. But this is my legacy. This is who I am.
Chris Cook (16:34):
Yeah. I'm still making it up as I go along. I think like everybody where that's going to be when the clock ticks down. I don't know. I mean, obviously I still have very young children, so my focus is on creating the best people that I can with them. I think as any parent's, legacy is obviously their children and what they leave behind in terms of their contribution to the world as we go. I think to answer the question is probably I have a really strong desire that I can't really understand why I have it, but I do have a really strong desire to share what I know to coach and to help people
Ken McLachlan (17:27):
And mentor. Well, you're doing that now. You're doing that. A lot of the people that work on your real estate team, the businesses you have, the position you take into leadership with our company and the influence you have over the people. I mean, it's not just about, I know what drives you on that is actually helping them to be better really out there. So that is really cool on that aspect of it,
Chris Cook (17:54):
I really enjoy it and I would hope that as I get older, I can do more of the things that I enjoy and less of the things that I don't. Yeah.
Ken McLachlan (18:09):
Well, that's always a good goal
Chris Cook (18:11):
If we can finish up doing only things you enjoy.
Ken McLachlan (18:14):
I always have it that I wanted to be in a position that I ended up end up doing only the things that I want to do. And I think my life has been fueled by that where, you know what? I know that the journey of this life we have is important and not to be wasted. So I really want to spend time doing what I enjoy. And I don't mean that I don't even want pleasure in my life. I mean, that'd be ideal if that worked out, but I know there's toughness that goes with it. But I really want to actually enjoy the toughness along the way, if that makes any sense. But the challenges and the different things I think that has made me and makes me, and I am saying this, I know this is exactly who you are, makes me a better person because of it. And your point about surrounding yourself with these people when you're sailing, I mean that to me is the most important thing in everything we do. Our friends, our and adventures. We take our business being around people that matters, that matter to you really is what it is all about, I think, anyway. And I think you do as well.
Chris Cook (19:30):
Yeah, I would agree. And if all we had was massages and sun sunbathing, it would,
Ken McLachlan (19:38):
Well, let's not get carried away. Okay, Chris, to have that only it does to
Chris Cook (19:44):
Bullshit.
Ken McLachlan (19:45):
Let me ask you this really, and I wrote down this question and I'm thinking about you prior to us talking today, and I wanted to ask you is what do you know about yourself?
Chris Cook (20:01):
I know that I am easily distracted, that I still spend a lot of my effort keeping on track. I know that I, that I am ambitious sometimes that makes me impatient. I speed through things that I probably should take more time with, but I know that I think I don't want to do anything alone. I think that's one of the worst things.
Ken McLachlan (20:56):
What do you mean by that?
Chris Cook (20:57):
Well, I've spent a number of years trying to build a team of real estate agents. I tried, before that I tried to be a super coach
Ken McLachlan (21:14):
For sailing,
Chris Cook (21:14):
Right? And I tried to be a solo to make it to the Olympics and take all the credit myself sort of thing. And I come to realize that the journey is so much sweeter if you go along with somebody, if you have somebody to share that with. And that's something that has taken me a long time to figure out that I don't actually, there's nothing that I can think of that I want to do alone anymore.
Ken McLachlan (21:51):
Yeah, that's a good way of thinking about it. How old are your kids?
Chris Cook (21:56):
11, seven and four.
Ken McLachlan (21:59):
Three of them. Good for you. Correct me or remind me as we go through this, but your concept of raising them is a little different than perhaps most, you're very involved and obviously you're a great mentor. And I was going to say a disciplinarian, you're not that, but a good father to your kids and a good husband to your wife, but your kids, you told me a story once about how you get your kids out in the street to go to meet neighbors and go to talk to people, right?
Chris Cook (22:38):
Yeah.
Ken McLachlan (22:38):
Do you know what I'm talking about?
Chris Cook (22:39):
No, I know exactly.
Ken McLachlan (22:40):
Tell me about that.
Chris Cook (22:42):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things that we've been creative with from the beginning, and my wife and I, we're not real big device people. We have iPhones that we're addicted to like anybody, but we don't have a lot of devices in the house. And I guess the best way to put it is we want for our kids what we had, which was the freedom to explore and to become the people that they're going to become. And we've encouraged them to go out and make friends in the neighborhood to use the people and the surroundings and the things that are available to them outside to explore and learn. So yeah, we've been somewhat purposeful about enticing them to go out and we've created environments where we've lived to get other parents to let go a little bit. Like a street hockey game is not bad.
Ken McLachlan (23:55):
We used to always play that as kids, didn't we?
Chris Cook (23:57):
Yeah. A game of tag through the neighborhood in between the houses where we moved from. I don't think trespassing was a thing. Everybody kind of went everywhere.
Ken McLachlan (24:12):
It's funny you say that because we used to. That's all we ever used to do. We used to always hang out. We used to always hang out with your buddies, play knock It or Ginger. We used to play all these different things, and I don't see a lot of kids these days just hanging out in the neighborhoods. But your kids do. I mean, they're not just hanging on the street corner. They're all playing with kids and
Chris Cook (24:36):
And they have each other too, which is having three. You've got a little pack and they go and they dug a seven foot deep hole in my backyard last week.
Ken McLachlan (24:49):
Really?
Chris Cook (24:50):
Yeah. I had to stop them. They started tunneling horizontally. I was not safe. And then I went down and they actually, they were putting wood supports in to stop it from collapsing and
Ken McLachlan (25:05):
Oh wow.
Chris Cook (25:07):
I had to stop it because it was just straight up dangerous. But I was good for you for thinking about the collapse, but you still can't do it. But it was a deep hole. I got in it and it was over my head. Really? Yeah, yeah. I saw it. I saw the shovel kind of come out of the ground. What's going on? You're kidding.
Ken McLachlan (25:29):
Your 11-year-old doing that, right?
Chris Cook (25:31):
No, all three of them.
Ken McLachlan (25:33):
All three of
Chris Cook (25:33):
Them. All three of them were back there.
Ken McLachlan (25:35):
So your encouragement to them is actually to get out, to explore things and not sit around and be active. That type of thing is important
Chris Cook (25:43):
For you? Yeah. Listen, it's not super easy because there's other influences and stuff like that. And when I was a kid, video games were starting. It was a thing, and we weren't allowed to have 'em. We were allowed to go to our friend's house and play 'em, but we weren't allowed to have the video games. It wasn't a thing for us. I remember one of my friends had a modem talking to people in Australia, and I was like, I don't know. I was like maybe 10. And I was like, what a waste of time. Let's go blow something up.
Ken McLachlan (26:20):
Well, it's just different times. And to be, there's so much distraction that kids have these days that we didn't have. Certainly I didn't have, and you had to lesser degree. But to have them take it out there and to cause stuff to happen other than looking on their phone and doing that stuff, a big thing right now, a really big thing. So good for you doing it. If you were sitting in front of, let's use a real estate agent, a new real estate agent in this business, what would you tell him or her that to be liked to do, to get involved with? Or what would your guidance be on that?
Chris Cook (27:09):
I think two things. The first thing is we have this amazing opportunity to connect with people on a personal level. One of the things that I really missed when I was coaching, I was away as much as I was, is I lost a lot of connection with my friends and family. And it is an amazing opportunity to just be in touch with people that you already know. Don't be afraid of being salesy. It is just a connection. Go out of your way to host a Christmas party, do a stop by, have a lunch, do things. Because the position of Fords us that flexibility and the rewards that come from that activity, there are monetary rewards for it, but it's not why you do it. I think that's the first thing. The other thing that I did when I first started was I actually made a deal with my wife that I was traveling at the time, about 250 days a year. I was out of the country. And I was like, if I do this real estate thing geographically, I'll be closer. But these first five years are going to be brutal.
Ken McLachlan (28:34):
It's a lot of work.
Chris Cook (28:37):
And so I say, rather than getting dragged into this life of perpetual unavailability, I'm going to commit to five years. And at the end of the five years, if I'm not in a better place, then I've done it wrong. I've wasted time. I haven't been thoughtful enough. And listen, there are still times where I get pulled, but it's not like it was that first five years.
Ken McLachlan (29:10):
Yeah.
Chris Cook (29:11):
So
Ken McLachlan (29:11):
You're more in control of your time now.
Chris Cook (29:12):
Yeah, I would say be intentional with the first three to five
Ken McLachlan (29:17):
Years. What I'm hearing you're saying is that for the first three to five years, the intentionality of it is really you get to dig down deep and do a lot of work, and there's going to be a lot of sacrifice that has to go with it.
Chris Cook (29:28):
Correct. You said it. You eat the frog first, right?
Ken McLachlan (29:32):
Yeah.
Chris Cook (29:32):
Do the difficult part first. Get up and running. And I say that, but there were lots of that I missed and squandered and didn't take full advantage of during those first five years. I didn't buckle down all the way that I could have, but it's five years a long time.
Ken McLachlan (29:55):
Well, I mean, five years is a long you. When did you first become an Olympic athlete?
Chris Cook (29:59):
2008.
Ken McLachlan (30:01):
And how old were you?
Chris Cook (30:02):
34.
Ken McLachlan (30:04):
And when you started the journey that you actually decided to be an Olympic athlete, how old were you?
Chris Cook (30:10):
14. It's 20 years. There you go.
Ken McLachlan (30:13):
20 years hard work.
Chris Cook (30:15):
Well, and missed opportunity at the beginning. Lack of discipline, lots of,
Ken McLachlan (30:19):
Well, lack of discipline, lack of association with people. But you figured it out though, Chris, which is really great. And you figured out with time and effort and energy, how to be productive in the business life as well, what you're doing, which is important.
Chris Cook (30:37):
And that was a tough thing watching as I went through my late twenties and into my thirties, and you watch people starting families and buying houses, getting ahead. And what was interesting is I always kind of said that work that I was doing was I was loading a really powerful gun, and it was amazing how fast I surpassed those people that I thought were way ahead of me.
Ken McLachlan (31:07):
I know you did the work and you're doing the work.
Chris Cook (31:10):
Yeah. You laid that foundation. And when I came into real estate, I enjoyed a really quick surge to where I was quite quickly. That was because of the things that I had done before that had nothing to do with real estate.
Ken McLachlan (31:26):
And you had the patience to actually work through it and do the things that mattered to you, and it still mattered to you, the discipline to do it and the patience to do it. And that to me is what you're saying. And the identification I see with you, how you identify is you're never afraid to do the work. You've never not been willing to do what's necessary to do whatever you have to do once you tie into something,
Chris Cook (31:50):
Which
Ken McLachlan (31:50):
Is important.
Chris Cook (31:51):
But it is, like I said, still there are days where I have to kick my own ass.
Ken McLachlan (31:56):
Well, you're not freaking perfect. Let's not get carried away here. I mean, you're getting close to it, Chris, but it's good to know. This has been really, really great. I've learned a lot by listening to you. I've learned a lot from you over the years, and it's a privilege for me to be associated with you and to have you in my life. And the difference you make to me, and not only me, but to many, many, many other people in our life and community is really strong. And I appreciate that and thank you for being you, and it's a great story. And you're my first Olympic athlete, so I'm blown away by that. Do you have a trophy or something or do you have a ribbon or
Chris Cook (32:38):
I got a box of them somewhere.
Ken McLachlan (32:40):
I know that doesn't matter to you, but listen bud, you're fantastic. Thank you, bud. I know you're going to go see your mom now, which is really, that's really cool as well to celebrate dinner with your mom tonight. And
Chris Cook (32:54):
Yeah, apparently she's getting a couple drinks into her.
Ken McLachlan (32:57):
All the best to you, Chris Cook. Thank you. Chris. How many people get ahold of you? They need you if they want to reach you.
Chris Cook (33:06):
I just would say probably my cell phone. Shoot me a text. (416) 435-8324.
Ken McLachlan (33:14):
Great. And Chris Cook with COOK? Not E. No E at the end of it. No E. And I look forward to seeing you soon, Chris. I really appreciate you doing this with us.
Chris Cook (33:26):
It's an absolute pleasure. Thanks, Ken.
Ken McLachlan (33:34):
So we've had Chris cook with us today and learning a lot from his journey and the continual journey that he does have. I want to thank him for being here. If you like this podcast, please share it with other people like it, share it, comment on it, or just tell people about it. It's really important for us to spread the word, and as Chris said today, it's really about who you surround yourself with and how you are in life and taking chances and getting out there. So I want to thank Chris for being here, and until next time, this has been Ken McLachlan from Real Life. Thank you.
